Paul, I share your frustration, as do many of us. Musica and Pick n play really aren't up to scratch. Tell me if this make sense to you: I heard that apple is holding back, as us South Africans prefer our compilation CDs, rather than Artist albums. Therefore, we prefer music in the "head" rather than buying into the "tail." I haven't seen any data to back that up, so I can't say that it's true. It's an interesting thought though. Wouldn't it be great to see Bok van Blerk available in iTunes.
Andrew
· 2 years ago
Paul, I share your frustration, as do many of us. Musica and Pick n play really aren't up to scratch. Tell me if this make sense to you: I heard that apple is holding back, as us South Africans prefer our compilation CDs, rather than Artist albums. Therefore, we prefer music in the "head" rather than buying into the "tail." I haven't seen any data to back that up, so I can't say that it's true. It's an interesting thought though. Wouldn't it be great to see Bok van Blerk available in iTunes.
Paul
· 2 years ago
Hey Andrew
My first thought it that it could be that our choices are also driven, to an extent, by the options available to us. Compilations are appealing because they offer the singles we want on one CD so rather than spending, say, R900 for 6 singles we like we spend R150 on a compilation that has those 6 singles and a couple more.
If what you are saying is the rationale Apple is using then it actually doesn't make sense. If we are inclined to buy compilations and that tendency has little to do with the cost of a few full albums compared to a decent compilation then wouldn't we still be a great market for the iTunes Store. You can buy singles on the iTunes Store as well as full albums.
And ja, it would be awesome to see Bok van Blerk and all the other SA artists on the iTunes Store.
Paul
· 2 years ago
Hey Andrew
My first thought it that it could be that our choices are also driven, to an extent, by the options available to us. Compilations are appealing because they offer the singles we want on one CD so rather than spending, say, R900 for 6 singles we like we spend R150 on a compilation that has those 6 singles and a couple more.
If what you are saying is the rationale Apple is using then it actually doesn't make sense. If we are inclined to buy compilations and that tendency has little to do with the cost of a few full albums compared to a decent compilation then wouldn't we still be a great market for the iTunes Store. You can buy singles on the iTunes Store as well as full albums.
And ja, it would be awesome to see Bok van Blerk and all the other SA artists on the iTunes Store.
Andrew
· 2 years ago
You make a good point, I think the benefit is clearly there. What is the story with Apple in South Africa? Are Core still their distribution company?
Andrew
· 2 years ago
You make a good point, I think the benefit is clearly there. What is the story with Apple in South Africa? Are Core still their distribution company?
Justin Hartman
· 2 years ago
Paul, you should try buy.com as I buy all my music online there. Songs cost $0.79 for most and you can get eveything. The only problem (as with all these sites) is the DRM stuff so you'll have to have a PC with Windows Media Player on it so that you can burn it to disk.
Once on disk you can pull into iTunes and that DRM issue is gone! This is what I do :)
Justin Hartman
· 2 years ago
Paul, you should try buy.com as I buy all my music online there. Songs cost $0.79 for most and you can get eveything. The only problem (as with all these sites) is the DRM stuff so you'll have to have a PC with Windows Media Player on it so that you can burn it to disk.
Once on disk you can pull into iTunes and that DRM issue is gone! This is what I do :)
Wezzo
· 2 years ago
If we can freely download, watch and listen to the YouTube video what's stopping us from converting that to mp3 using vixy.net or others? Is that illegal?
Wezzo
· 2 years ago
If we can freely download, watch and listen to the YouTube video what's stopping us from converting that to mp3 using vixy.net or others? Is that illegal?
Paul
· 2 years ago
Technically creating a derivative of music we can get from other services with DRM is illegal although often very easy to do. This is what drives me a bit nuts.
Incidentally, after my wife read this post she came to me and asked if my fists were sore from my little tantrum ... :P
Paul
· 2 years ago
Technically creating a derivative of music we can get from other services with DRM is illegal although often very easy to do. This is what drives me a bit nuts.
Incidentally, after my wife read this post she came to me and asked if my fists were sore from my little tantrum ... :P
Paul
· 2 years ago
Thanks for the tip Justin. I may just use that option to get some fresh music. At least the purchases themselves are legit.
Paul
· 2 years ago
Thanks for the tip Justin. I may just use that option to get some fresh music. At least the purchases themselves are legit.
disgusted@musicindustries.in.s
· 2 years ago
I am really confused... and angry at the SA market!!
There are all these laws to try and prevent the illegal reproduction of music, yet if you do end up in court because some traffic cop thought it funny to arrest you because of the copied discs in your car, and you are able to prove that you legally own the originals you get scott free! This basically places you between the devil and the deep blue see!
What is the use then of these laws, as they are not properly enforced. A few bucks will probably save you the court hearing as well!!
The record companies only have themselves to blame for the situation we are in and again they aren't helping the situation. R150 for a disc lately is kind of 'cheap', I actually paid 210 bucks for one CD from L&L in the last week. This is a rip-off, that same disc is in US between $7 and $14 (I just couldn't wait, for I would've bought it from overseas). $1 is basically for the US as R1 is in SA, I've never been overseas so no idea really but if this equation is roughly accurate we are being ripped off in every bloody store!!
With a basic salary of say R7000 in SA you will be able to, if you're crazy enough, purchase as little as 33 CD's @ R210, if in the US you get the equivalent (R7=$1) $1000 you will be able to purchase a whopping 71 CD's @ a cost of $14 per disc. This clearly shows that we are being ripped off, where did the other 38 CD's go? There is NOTHING that goes into a CD that will be mass produced that would make R200 a CD reasonable. The sad fact is tat very little of that money goes to the Artists. I once purchased a limited edition CD from L&L and was able to get a total of R130 off from R1300, and I won't have anybody tell me that they lost on that deal! I agree that this would drive 99% of people wanting to copy the disc from us instead of paying for it - Hello piracy!!
I have to mention that I have a collection of 300+ Original CD's (Very proud of this, and the entire household collection of 900+) and not one single copied disc (Even more proud of this!). I don't mind paying R200 for a CD because I feel that the Artist deserve every little cent that they get! Even if it is because I like only one song on the entire disc, all I want in return for these ridiculous fees is the free PERSONAL use as I like. I feel I deserve this, even a guy who legally purchased one CD should have the right to any form of personal use of that disc.
I am actually looking at purchasing an Apple Ipod, purely for use in my car as it has a single disc changer not supporting MP3 format (which in any case is as illegal to use in this case) because having the Ipod is safer in the sense that I don't have to change discs the whole time and endanger my life and the lives of people around me while driving. The law won't stop me, at all! I have actually downloaded Itunes and copied about a third of my music already so that once I get the thing (just dealing for a better price from Apple) it is only the Syncing that's left.
It is actually ironic how the whole MP3 thing became illegal! Correct me if I'm wrong but the MP3 was initially created for people to download free of charge to hear what the band sounds like and you were by agreement (EULA of Napster etc. then) forced to delete after 3 days. This obviously got out of hand because no one had kept to the EULA and started these huge collections as one would find on some client's pc's lately. Now they are trying to make every one else pay for their own stupid fault! It is a shame!
I don't think that the Itunes store being eventually available in SA would affect the CD sales that much! There are obviously the people that won't purchase in store CD's anymore, but there are the crazy people like myself who will pay to download a song to hear what it sounds like and then go out and buy the CD because it gives me some sort of satisfactory feeling to have the original disc and lastly there is a very small percentage people out of 44million that can afford a MP3 player and access to internet to purchase and download music. They will still go out and buy CD's.
Fighting the law and the record companies would be like making a fire in the middle of the sea! Things will eventually work out the way they should, we just need to be even a little more patient!
I am really confused... and angry at the SA market!!
There are all these laws to try and prevent the illegal reproduction of music, yet if you do end up in court because some traffic cop thought it funny to arrest you because of the copied discs in your car, and you are able to prove that you legally own the originals you get scott free! This basically places you between the devil and the deep blue see!
What is the use then of these laws, as they are not properly enforced. A few bucks will probably save you the court hearing as well!!
The record companies only have themselves to blame for the situation we are in and again they aren't helping the situation. R150 for a disc lately is kind of 'cheap', I actually paid 210 bucks for one CD from L&L in the last week. This is a rip-off, that same disc is in US between $7 and $14 (I just couldn't wait, for I would've bought it from overseas). $1 is basically for the US as R1 is in SA, I've never been overseas so no idea really but if this equation is roughly accurate we are being ripped off in every bloody store!!
With a basic salary of say R7000 in SA you will be able to, if you're crazy enough, purchase as little as 33 CD's @ R210, if in the US you get the equivalent (R7=$1) $1000 you will be able to purchase a whopping 71 CD's @ a cost of $14 per disc. This clearly shows that we are being ripped off, where did the other 38 CD's go? There is NOTHING that goes into a CD that will be mass produced that would make R200 a CD reasonable. The sad fact is tat very little of that money goes to the Artists. I once purchased a limited edition CD from L&L and was able to get a total of R130 off from R1300, and I won't have anybody tell me that they lost on that deal! I agree that this would drive 99% of people wanting to copy the disc from us instead of paying for it - Hello piracy!!
I have to mention that I have a collection of 300+ Original CD's (Very proud of this, and the entire household collection of 900+) and not one single copied disc (Even more proud of this!). I don't mind paying R200 for a CD because I feel that the Artist deserve every little cent that they get! Even if it is because I like only one song on the entire disc, all I want in return for these ridiculous fees is the free PERSONAL use as I like. I feel I deserve this, even a guy who legally purchased one CD should have the right to any form of personal use of that disc.
I am actually looking at purchasing an Apple Ipod, purely for use in my car as it has a single disc changer not supporting MP3 format (which in any case is as illegal to use in this case) because having the Ipod is safer in the sense that I don't have to change discs the whole time and endanger my life and the lives of people around me while driving. The law won't stop me, at all! I have actually downloaded Itunes and copied about a third of my music already so that once I get the thing (just dealing for a better price from Apple) it is only the Syncing that's left.
It is actually ironic how the whole MP3 thing became illegal! Correct me if I'm wrong but the MP3 was initially created for people to download free of charge to hear what the band sounds like and you were by agreement (EULA of Napster etc. then) forced to delete after 3 days. This obviously got out of hand because no one had kept to the EULA and started these huge collections as one would find on some client's pc's lately. Now they are trying to make every one else pay for their own stupid fault! It is a shame!
I don't think that the Itunes store being eventually available in SA would affect the CD sales that much! There are obviously the people that won't purchase in store CD's anymore, but there are the crazy people like myself who will pay to download a song to hear what it sounds like and then go out and buy the CD because it gives me some sort of satisfactory feeling to have the original disc and lastly there is a very small percentage people out of 44million that can afford a MP3 player and access to internet to purchase and download music. They will still go out and buy CD's.
Fighting the law and the record companies would be like making a fire in the middle of the sea! Things will eventually work out the way they should, we just need to be even a little more patient!
Oh wow. I thought I had a rant. You definitely win in the rant department disgusted, and rightly so.
Paul
· 2 years ago
Oh wow. I thought I had a rant. You definitely win in the rant department disgusted, and rightly so.
disgusted@musicindustries.in.s
· 2 years ago
I'm finally getting my Ipod on Monday!! Paying less for the Ipod and a FM transmitter for in the car than most guys pay for just the Ipod!
disgusted@musicindustries.in.s
· 2 years ago
I'm finally getting my Ipod on Monday!! Paying less for the Ipod and a FM transmitter for in the car than most guys pay for just the Ipod!
Charl
· 6 months ago
Hi guys,
Just a quick comment on Disgusted's rant above. If you pay R210 for a CD, this is most probably an imported disc. The disc is imported by the store itself, so this is why the cost is so high. They paid the price of buying it overseas and then imported it themselves. So you are paying for the disc, the shipping costs, the import duties and most proabably the foreign exchange loss (depending on timing of course)
Yes, most people may feel like R150 is a lot of money for an album, but I ask you this... I remember in 1998 a CD was just over R100 (if my memory serves me correct). Let's call it R110. So CD prices have increased by about R40 in over 10 years. So call it R4 per year. That's only 3.64%. I think you'll find that is a similar price increase year on year than other similar products, such as computer games or movie DVD's. I stand to be corrected on these prices, so feel free to comment. That's how I remember them...
The price of music has definitely been affected by piracy, of that there is no doubt.
That aside, I completely agree with you. I feel that the Apple has absolutely no reason not to open a music store in South Africa. They have opened the application store for the iPhone and the iPod Touch, so the billing system is now in place, it's just a case of getting the rights to distribute music in South Africa. And the record companies will never slow that process down as they stand to make some money for almost no effort. The artists will also benefit greatly, apple will make money. Hell, everybody wins. I really cannot understand why our money is not good enough.
pauljacobson
· 6 months ago
Hey Charl
You know, I'm not so sure the music industry won't frustrate the process of licensing music for sale online in SA. Nokia was forced to accept DRM'd music in .wma before it could make the music it sells through the Nokia Music Store available in SA. I am beginning to think Apple was in the enviable position where it could exploit its position in the marketplace to force un-DRM'd options. Other providers are still subject to the music industry's irrational whims.
All Comments
Tell me if this make sense to you: I heard that apple is holding back, as us South Africans prefer our compilation CDs, rather than Artist albums. Therefore, we prefer music in the "head" rather than buying into the "tail." I haven't seen any data to back that up, so I can't say that it's true. It's an interesting thought though. Wouldn't it be great to see Bok van Blerk available in iTunes.
Tell me if this make sense to you: I heard that apple is holding back, as us South Africans prefer our compilation CDs, rather than Artist albums. Therefore, we prefer music in the "head" rather than buying into the "tail." I haven't seen any data to back that up, so I can't say that it's true. It's an interesting thought though. Wouldn't it be great to see Bok van Blerk available in iTunes.
My first thought it that it could be that our choices are also driven, to an extent, by the options available to us. Compilations are appealing because they offer the singles we want on one CD so rather than spending, say, R900 for 6 singles we like we spend R150 on a compilation that has those 6 singles and a couple more.
If what you are saying is the rationale Apple is using then it actually doesn't make sense. If we are inclined to buy compilations and that tendency has little to do with the cost of a few full albums compared to a decent compilation then wouldn't we still be a great market for the iTunes Store. You can buy singles on the iTunes Store as well as full albums.
And ja, it would be awesome to see Bok van Blerk and all the other SA artists on the iTunes Store.
My first thought it that it could be that our choices are also driven, to an extent, by the options available to us. Compilations are appealing because they offer the singles we want on one CD so rather than spending, say, R900 for 6 singles we like we spend R150 on a compilation that has those 6 singles and a couple more.
If what you are saying is the rationale Apple is using then it actually doesn't make sense. If we are inclined to buy compilations and that tendency has little to do with the cost of a few full albums compared to a decent compilation then wouldn't we still be a great market for the iTunes Store. You can buy singles on the iTunes Store as well as full albums.
And ja, it would be awesome to see Bok van Blerk and all the other SA artists on the iTunes Store.
Once on disk you can pull into iTunes and that DRM issue is gone! This is what I do :)
Once on disk you can pull into iTunes and that DRM issue is gone! This is what I do :)
Incidentally, after my wife read this post she came to me and asked if my fists were sore from my little tantrum ... :P
Incidentally, after my wife read this post she came to me and asked if my fists were sore from my little tantrum ... :P
There are all these laws to try and prevent the illegal reproduction of music, yet if you do end up in court because some traffic cop thought it funny to arrest you because of the copied discs in your car, and you are able to prove that you legally own the originals you get scott free! This basically places you between the devil and the deep blue see!
What is the use then of these laws, as they are not properly enforced. A few bucks will probably save you the court hearing as well!!
The record companies only have themselves to blame for the situation we are in and again they aren't helping the situation. R150 for a disc lately is kind of 'cheap', I actually paid 210 bucks for one CD from L&L in the last week. This is a rip-off, that same disc is in US between $7 and $14 (I just couldn't wait, for I would've bought it from overseas). $1 is basically for the US as R1 is in SA, I've never been overseas so no idea really but if this equation is roughly accurate we are being ripped off in every bloody store!!
With a basic salary of say R7000 in SA you will be able to, if you're crazy enough, purchase as little as 33 CD's @ R210, if in the US you get the equivalent (R7=$1) $1000 you will be able to purchase a whopping 71 CD's @ a cost of $14 per disc. This clearly shows that we are being ripped off, where did the other 38 CD's go? There is NOTHING that goes into a CD that will be mass produced that would make R200 a CD reasonable. The sad fact is tat very little of that money goes to the Artists. I once purchased a limited edition CD from L&L and was able to get a total of R130 off from R1300, and I won't have anybody tell me that they lost on that deal! I agree that this would drive 99% of people wanting to copy the disc from us instead of paying for it - Hello piracy!!
I have to mention that I have a collection of 300+ Original CD's (Very proud of this, and the entire household collection of 900+) and not one single copied disc (Even more proud of this!). I don't mind paying R200 for a CD because I feel that the Artist deserve every little cent that they get! Even if it is because I like only one song on the entire disc, all I want in return for these ridiculous fees is the free PERSONAL use as I like. I feel I deserve this, even a guy who legally purchased one CD should have the right to any form of personal use of that disc.
I am actually looking at purchasing an Apple Ipod, purely for use in my car as it has a single disc changer not supporting MP3 format (which in any case is as illegal to use in this case) because having the Ipod is safer in the sense that I don't have to change discs the whole time and endanger my life and the lives of people around me while driving. The law won't stop me, at all! I have actually downloaded Itunes and copied about a third of my music already so that once I get the thing (just dealing for a better price from Apple) it is only the Syncing that's left.
It is actually ironic how the whole MP3 thing became illegal! Correct me if I'm wrong but the MP3 was initially created for people to download free of charge to hear what the band sounds like and you were by agreement (EULA of Napster etc. then) forced to delete after 3 days. This obviously got out of hand because no one had kept to the EULA and started these huge collections as one would find on some client's pc's lately. Now they are trying to make every one else pay for their own stupid fault! It is a shame!
I don't think that the Itunes store being eventually available in SA would affect the CD sales that much! There are obviously the people that won't purchase in store CD's anymore, but there are the crazy people like myself who will pay to download a song to hear what it sounds like and then go out and buy the CD because it gives me some sort of satisfactory feeling to have the original disc and lastly there is a very small percentage people out of 44million that can afford a MP3 player and access to internet to purchase and download music. They will still go out and buy CD's.
Fighting the law and the record companies would be like making a fire in the middle of the sea! Things will eventually work out the way they should, we just need to be even a little more patient!
Peace
disgusted@musicindustries.in.sa
There are all these laws to try and prevent the illegal reproduction of music, yet if you do end up in court because some traffic cop thought it funny to arrest you because of the copied discs in your car, and you are able to prove that you legally own the originals you get scott free! This basically places you between the devil and the deep blue see!
What is the use then of these laws, as they are not properly enforced. A few bucks will probably save you the court hearing as well!!
The record companies only have themselves to blame for the situation we are in and again they aren't helping the situation. R150 for a disc lately is kind of 'cheap', I actually paid 210 bucks for one CD from L&L in the last week. This is a rip-off, that same disc is in US between $7 and $14 (I just couldn't wait, for I would've bought it from overseas). $1 is basically for the US as R1 is in SA, I've never been overseas so no idea really but if this equation is roughly accurate we are being ripped off in every bloody store!!
With a basic salary of say R7000 in SA you will be able to, if you're crazy enough, purchase as little as 33 CD's @ R210, if in the US you get the equivalent (R7=$1) $1000 you will be able to purchase a whopping 71 CD's @ a cost of $14 per disc. This clearly shows that we are being ripped off, where did the other 38 CD's go? There is NOTHING that goes into a CD that will be mass produced that would make R200 a CD reasonable. The sad fact is tat very little of that money goes to the Artists. I once purchased a limited edition CD from L&L and was able to get a total of R130 off from R1300, and I won't have anybody tell me that they lost on that deal! I agree that this would drive 99% of people wanting to copy the disc from us instead of paying for it - Hello piracy!!
I have to mention that I have a collection of 300+ Original CD's (Very proud of this, and the entire household collection of 900+) and not one single copied disc (Even more proud of this!). I don't mind paying R200 for a CD because I feel that the Artist deserve every little cent that they get! Even if it is because I like only one song on the entire disc, all I want in return for these ridiculous fees is the free PERSONAL use as I like. I feel I deserve this, even a guy who legally purchased one CD should have the right to any form of personal use of that disc.
I am actually looking at purchasing an Apple Ipod, purely for use in my car as it has a single disc changer not supporting MP3 format (which in any case is as illegal to use in this case) because having the Ipod is safer in the sense that I don't have to change discs the whole time and endanger my life and the lives of people around me while driving. The law won't stop me, at all! I have actually downloaded Itunes and copied about a third of my music already so that once I get the thing (just dealing for a better price from Apple) it is only the Syncing that's left.
It is actually ironic how the whole MP3 thing became illegal! Correct me if I'm wrong but the MP3 was initially created for people to download free of charge to hear what the band sounds like and you were by agreement (EULA of Napster etc. then) forced to delete after 3 days. This obviously got out of hand because no one had kept to the EULA and started these huge collections as one would find on some client's pc's lately. Now they are trying to make every one else pay for their own stupid fault! It is a shame!
I don't think that the Itunes store being eventually available in SA would affect the CD sales that much! There are obviously the people that won't purchase in store CD's anymore, but there are the crazy people like myself who will pay to download a song to hear what it sounds like and then go out and buy the CD because it gives me some sort of satisfactory feeling to have the original disc and lastly there is a very small percentage people out of 44million that can afford a MP3 player and access to internet to purchase and download music. They will still go out and buy CD's.
Fighting the law and the record companies would be like making a fire in the middle of the sea! Things will eventually work out the way they should, we just need to be even a little more patient!
Peace
disgusted@musicindustries.in.sa
Just a quick comment on Disgusted's rant above. If you pay R210 for a CD, this is most probably an imported disc. The disc is imported by the store itself, so this is why the cost is so high. They paid the price of buying it overseas and then imported it themselves. So you are paying for the disc, the shipping costs, the import duties and most proabably the foreign exchange loss (depending on timing of course)
Yes, most people may feel like R150 is a lot of money for an album, but I ask you this... I remember in 1998 a CD was just over R100 (if my memory serves me correct). Let's call it R110. So CD prices have increased by about R40 in over 10 years. So call it R4 per year. That's only 3.64%. I think you'll find that is a similar price increase year on year than other similar products, such as computer games or movie DVD's. I stand to be corrected on these prices, so feel free to comment. That's how I remember them...
The price of music has definitely been affected by piracy, of that there is no doubt.
That aside, I completely agree with you. I feel that the Apple has absolutely no reason not to open a music store in South Africa. They have opened the application store for the iPhone and the iPod Touch, so the billing system is now in place, it's just a case of getting the rights to distribute music in South Africa. And the record companies will never slow that process down as they stand to make some money for almost no effort. The artists will also benefit greatly, apple will make money. Hell, everybody wins. I really cannot understand why our money is not good enough.
You know, I'm not so sure the music industry won't frustrate the process of licensing music for sale online in SA. Nokia was forced to accept DRM'd music in .wma before it could make the music it sells through the Nokia Music Store available in SA. I am beginning to think Apple was in the enviable position where it could exploit its position in the marketplace to force un-DRM'd options. Other providers are still subject to the music industry's irrational whims.