DISQUS

Candice · 2 years ago

I just think it is high time that the police made some attempts at positive PR in this country [using actions not words], and although I agree with ZERO tolerance, we need to remember we are supposed to be a democratic society that treats its citizens in a humane and dignified way. What happened to innocent until proven guilty...? These people were treated [and called] 'criminals' before the court of law threw the case out! Thanks for this post Paul!

Candice · 2 years ago

I just think it is high time that the police made some attempts at positive PR in this country [using actions not words], and although I agree with ZERO tolerance, we need to remember we are supposed to be a democratic society that treats its citizens in a humane and dignified way. What happened to innocent until proven guilty...? These people were treated [and called] 'criminals' before the court of law threw the case out! Thanks for this post Paul!

Nicholas Hall · 2 years ago

Hey Paul, this story is super worrying, while I'm not sure of the penalties for these offenses, I'm pretty sure that these people could bring a claim against the police. Not to mention that they could bring a claim for their rights being breached. Section 35 2(a) of the constitution states that everybody has a right to be informed promptly for the reason why they are being detained, section 35 2(e) states that the conditions of the detention need to be humane, which includes adequate nutrition. I'm also pretty sure one could fit a dignity claim as well. Finally don't the police need an arrest warrant to actually arrest someone, and if they don't then, they need to reasonably believe that they would receive one when asked ? I know litigation costs are expensive, but I doubt that this is an isolated incident, so I'm pretty sure there are grounds for a 'class action' suit of some sort. In the end though I suppose this is just hot air... the courts are already flooded with cases, and do we really need to be depriving the already underpaid police force (for those whom actually do their jobs) of their pay... *sigh*

Nicholas Hall · 2 years ago

Hey Paul, this story is super worrying, while I'm not sure of the penalties for these offenses, I'm pretty sure that these people could bring a claim against the police. Not to mention that they could bring a claim for their rights being breached. Section 35 2(a) of the constitution states that everybody has a right to be informed promptly for the reason why they are being detained, section 35 2(e) states that the conditions of the detention need to be humane, which includes adequate nutrition. I'm also pretty sure one could fit a dignity claim as well. Finally don't the police need an arrest warrant to actually arrest someone, and if they don't then, they need to reasonably believe that they would receive one when asked ? I know litigation costs are expensive, but I doubt that this is an isolated incident, so I'm pretty sure there are grounds for a 'class action' suit of some sort. In the end though I suppose this is just hot air... the courts are already flooded with cases, and do we really need to be depriving the already underpaid police force (for those whom actually do their jobs) of their pay... *sigh*

Nic · 2 years ago

When it's your loved ones committing the crime it is labelled a mistake, when a taxi does it he/she are branded dogs, animals, rubbish, pigs. How is this fair?

How bout showing some equality here. Breaking the law is breaking the law. there are no exceptions. Simple.

Nic · 2 years ago

When it's your loved ones committing the crime it is labelled a mistake, when a taxi does it he/she are branded dogs, animals, rubbish, pigs. How is this fair?

How bout showing some equality here. Breaking the law is breaking the law. there are no exceptions. Simple.

Nicholas Hall · 2 years ago

Well, Nic isn't that the point? From what's been described there hasn't been an equal level of treatment, the general public are being arrested, for minor crimes, which don't even warrant them, while taxi drivers are let off scot free for the same or even worse offences. I don't think people have any problem with the fact that the driver got punished for her wrong doing, but the treatment she received and the blatant disregard for the law shown by the metro police is something to be worried about. Perhaps your right, if this story was raised by a taxi driver, then people wouldn't care at all, but that doesn't mean it is still right, often people will only be called to action when a problem strikes close to home. The thing is if this sort of brutality is being implemented on a daily basis, even if it is happening to hardened convicted criminals, it is still wrong, and it needs to be sorted out, hopefully now people will be prepared to take action, what that action is though i don't know...

Nicholas Hall · 2 years ago

Well, Nic isn't that the point? From what's been described there hasn't been an equal level of treatment, the general public are being arrested, for minor crimes, which don't even warrant them, while taxi drivers are let off scot free for the same or even worse offences. I don't think people have any problem with the fact that the driver got punished for her wrong doing, but the treatment she received and the blatant disregard for the law shown by the metro police is something to be worried about. Perhaps your right, if this story was raised by a taxi driver, then people wouldn't care at all, but that doesn't mean it is still right, often people will only be called to action when a problem strikes close to home. The thing is if this sort of brutality is being implemented on a daily basis, even if it is happening to hardened convicted criminals, it is still wrong, and it needs to be sorted out, hopefully now people will be prepared to take action, what that action is though i don't know...

Paul · 2 years ago

I had a chat with Candice Jones from ITWeb who feels a similar way to Nic and while I am in favour of people being held accountable for their wrongdoings, I am not convinced that the measures taken are proportionate and that the Metro cops are acting consistently.

Paul · 2 years ago

I had a chat with Candice Jones from ITWeb who feels a similar way to Nic and while I am in favour of people being held accountable for their wrongdoings, I am not convinced that the measures taken are proportionate and that the Metro cops are acting consistently.

Steve Hayes · 2 years ago

Zero tolerance means zero tolerance, and that is the problem with zero tolerance. It doesn't allow for a sense of proportion.

What we need is not zero tolerance, but a sense of proportion. Zero tolerance means punishing a morotist who looks both ways, sees the road is clear, and rolls across the line of a stop street at under 5 km/h in exactly the same way as one who drove through at full speed without looking.

Taxi drivers often skip the queue waiting to turn and then rely on the kindness of others to let them in, or just push in. But if other motorists are never hauled up for these offences, they say that taxi drivers are being discriminated against.

Steve Hayes · 2 years ago

Zero tolerance means zero tolerance, and that is the problem with zero tolerance. It doesn't allow for a sense of proportion.

What we need is not zero tolerance, but a sense of proportion. Zero tolerance means punishing a morotist who looks both ways, sees the road is clear, and rolls across the line of a stop street at under 5 km/h in exactly the same way as one who drove through at full speed without looking.

Taxi drivers often skip the queue waiting to turn and then rely on the kindness of others to let them in, or just push in. But if other motorists are never hauled up for these offences, they say that taxi drivers are being discriminated against.

Craig Nicholson · 2 years ago

@Steve: I think the problem with the taxis is a result of necessity. They have a business to run and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. This country hardly makes any provision for bus lanes or anything that would ease the traffic congestion for taxis.

Craig Nicholson · 2 years ago

@Steve: I think the problem with the taxis is a result of necessity. They have a business to run and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. This country hardly makes any provision for bus lanes or anything that would ease the traffic congestion for taxis.

Richard Catto · 2 years ago

zero tolerance is bullshit.

I don't agree with that policy at all.

Most traffic violations are not arrestable offences.

Metro cops should be disbanded. They are total arseholes. I hate them all. Sack the lot of them.

Do not incorporate them into the SAPS. They're not fit to work as security guards.

Richard Catto · 2 years ago

zero tolerance is bullshit.

I don't agree with that policy at all.

Most traffic violations are not arrestable offences.

Metro cops should be disbanded. They are total arseholes. I hate them all. Sack the lot of them.

Do not incorporate them into the SAPS. They're not fit to work as security guards.

jon Dare · 2 years ago

Nic and those simple minded folk like you.....it is not about the right or wrong of the offence we are arguing, rather the fact that you can be locked up and a court order from the pretoria high court demanding your immediate release can be totally ignored by the police with the comment 'we dont listen to judges we do things our way' that is the most disturbing aspect of this situation, as well as the verbal and mental abuse these people had to endure! (i know I was there!!!). So get off the moral high ground and start trying to realise the horror of having one of your loved ones go through this, the helplessness of knowing that the only thing that helped them was the fact that a supreme judge was ready to issue warrants of arrest for the police officers/captain and commissioner!Rather than sit in their own sewer pit they eventually released these poor people!!!!!Try and get the point!

jon Dare · 2 years ago

Nic and those simple minded folk like you.....it is not about the right or wrong of the offence we are arguing, rather the fact that you can be locked up and a court order from the pretoria high court demanding your immediate release can be totally ignored by the police with the comment 'we dont listen to judges we do things our way' that is the most disturbing aspect of this situation, as well as the verbal and mental abuse these people had to endure! (i know I was there!!!). So get off the moral high ground and start trying to realise the horror of having one of your loved ones go through this, the helplessness of knowing that the only thing that helped them was the fact that a supreme judge was ready to issue warrants of arrest for the police officers/captain and commissioner!Rather than sit in their own sewer pit they eventually released these poor people!!!!!Try and get the point!